Can I solve my variable data problem with Indesign?

[O***@adobeforums.com]

I've searched the forum but I have not been able to find the answer to my beginners question although I suspect its a really easy one.

I'm about to create a document heavy on graphics and text with which I know Indesign will do an excellent job.

One key feature thats essential is that I can define a number of (text) variables like name, address, organization name, organization type etc.

I want to be able to change the variables easy (preferably in a predefined form on page 1 which will be discarded after printing) to get the corresponding changes throughout the text.

I do not primarily want to link the document to a database, I want to enter the information on a per-document/per-print basis.

Can Indesign do this?
Do I need a script?
Do I need 3rd party software?

/O

[P***@adobeforums.com]

Try reading about Data Merge in the help files. I'm not sure if this is what you want, but from your description it could be. You can also do a forum search on the same topic and find a lot of advice on how to set it up.

Peter

[K***@adobeforums.com]

I don't think you can do exactly want you want. It seems you to want to
change variables from within InDesign. As Peter says, DataMerge changes
variables, but the data is stored outside InDesign.


DataMerge works using a .txt or .csv file as the data holder. If you go this
route you can either:

create a single document containing multiple iterations of your main
document, each with a different set of variables
or
if you only had a single set of variables in your .CSV file, you could
create a document containing those variables, and then by editing or
substituting the .CSV file, you could change the variables by simply udating
the link or relinking.

k

[P***@adobeforums.com]

Ken,

Thanks for popping in. (He's an expert on Data Merge). I still don't know the exact structure of the document being planned, but I'm inferring from the OP that the data is to be stored on the first page, which will be thrown away. If instead the data is stored in the external file, I think Data Merge might have some possibilities.

Not having used it this way, I wonder if you know if you can place the same variable field in different positions throughout the document (presumably you'd need to maintain the order) and have the values flow in? This is a slightly different scenario from creating a single setup and having it repeat.

Peter

[K***@adobeforums.com]

'He's an expert on Data Merge'

Hardly - if you mean me Peter. I just use it from time which is perhaps more
than 90 per cent of other InDesign users.

When you import a data file the first record sets the placeholder names for
the rest of the data - which is why your real data should start in record 2.
So there is no reason why you can't have multiple instances of the same
placeholder, and there would be no need to maintain any order. Once InDesign
has established that the third chunk of data in your file has been allocated
the name <<address>>, everywhere it finds <<address>> it will put in data
chunk number three.

I think the only difference between what is being proposed here and the
'conventional' use of DataMerge is that there would not be multiple versions
of the document. There would, of course, be two. The original document would
be laid out with placeholders for the variables, then when linked with the
data file through DataMerge, InDesign would produce original document-1
which would be the one to be printed.

This seems a fairly elegant solution for targeting documents, with a few
provisos. If the content of the variables differed widely in length, layout
would go out the window. There are also issues with formatting within CSV
data, such as new paragraphs and the use of the chosen delimiters in the
text.

InDesign is also not very happy with DataMerge variables in tables. If
changes in data length cause changes in cell depth, InDesign can crash - at
least that's my experience.

k

[O***@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for the help!

It seems there is a solution to my problem then.

Although there might be a problem with data length as it is difficult to know if the name will be Ola or Maximilian Mapother III. Indesign will not reflow the text after a field update?

As I am going to do the procedure with the client next to me, does Indesign take a long time do update the merge data and produce the new document?

Would a script solve this problem better/easier?

/O

[K***@adobeforums.com]

Ola

"Indesign will not reflow the text after a field update?"

Yes it will, that's my point. If this is happening automatically in a big
document you don't know what effect the reflow is having on your layout.


"does Indesign take a long time do update the merge data and produce the new
document?"

How long is a piece of string? Lots of records with lots of fields can take
lots of time. For instance, a mailshot to 2,500 companies with some 50
variable data elements has taken in terms of hours on my 2.93 GHz Pentium
with 2.24 GB RAM. Whereas a simple mailshot to a couple of dozen companies
with little more than name and address data takes a few minutes.

You might like to note that as well as tying InDesign up, a big DataMerge
soaks up system resources to the extent that you might as well go for a
walk.

"Would a script solve this problem better/easier?"

Possibly. But all this depends on the detail of your job which we don't
really have. For instance, an option could be a simple Find/Change routine.


k

[O***@adobeforums.com]

I'm very grateful for all comments and help on this issue! And I'm sorry that I'm so imprecise in my questions!

To add some more detail: The publication is in itself not a big one, 24 pages, text approx 30%, graphics approx 70%. There might be altogether 5 variables and each will appear in more than one place in the text but none more than 15.

The document can be designed to take care of the text reflow due to different variable length.

The basic issue can be described as a simple search & replace problem, but I need to make it very simple (and quick) as I will do this in front of a customer. I want to be able to enter all variable data in one step and then let Indesign do the search & replace for all variables.

Any tip where I can find or buy a Find/Change routine that edits multiple variables at once?

/O

[K***@adobeforums.com]

"Any tip where I can find or buy a Find/Change routine that edits multiple
variables at once?"

Not that I'm aware of. That would make a good scripting project or feature
request for InDesign.

If you find one, let us know. I'll buy it.

k

[K***@adobeforums.com]

After a bit more consideration...

What you are planning would work pretty quickly with DataMerge. But I think
we are still only getting half the story. You said earlier you want to do
this with the customer watching. Is this just meant as a demonstration? How
would the final project work? Would you still be producing this document on
demand with one set of variables at a time, or will you ultimately be
producing lots of documents together?

If the latter, I feel you should be looking at DataMerge to produce multiple
iterations of the document from one group of data variables.

k

[O***@adobeforums.com]

I'm sorry if You find me a bit vague; it's a personalized book project.

With the holidays coming up, I plan to be on location producing/selling the books with customers waiting. And thus I need the production process to be as fast and easy as possible, minimizing process steps for me and waiting time for the customers.

The DataMerge routine could be of good help though when it comes to Internet orders as they could be processed by the batch.

/O

[K***@adobeforums.com]

Understood.

I think Find/Replace, even if it's a name at a time, may be your fastest
option. To use DataMerge would involve you having a separate application
open to create the CSV file - spreadsheet/database and then export, or
directly into Notepad, which could be cumbersome and risk errors getting the
stuff between the " " - although DataMerge can be set up to take
tab-delimited input which would probably have the edge in this circumstance.

Find/Replace can be speeded up by using the drop down in the Search field.
Do your searches on your placeholders in advance so they're in the order
they will come up when you are with your customer, then you can just drop
down and select them each time.

If the replace data is going to be used more than once you could do the same
thing then.

k

[P***@adobeforums.com]

This might help set up the file:

Open an excel spreadsheet and type your field names into the first row (is that right Ken?), then type the values for the variables in the next row. Since, as I understand things at the moment, the variables get the same value each time, you could select the second row and copy/paste into as many more rows as you have need for variables to fill (select the row, then copy, then highlight the number of additional rows you need and "Insert copied cells"). Finally export the spreadsheet to csv or tab delimited and you're good to go.

Peter

[K***@adobeforums.com]

Peter

Ola is only working with one record at a time. So only one row would be
needed in the spreadsheet (under the header row). If the same content was
needed for more than one variable, then you wouldn't need more than one
variable, just re-use the one you've got.

That sounds as clear as mud.

I think what I'm saying is that if this was a form letter, and you had and
address like <<Title>> <<First name>> <<Last name>> and then planned to
start Dear <<Familiar>> you wouldn't need <<Familiar>>, just use <<First
name>> again.

k

[P***@adobeforums.com]

Ok, I think I get it, and it does seem like find/change is the fast way to go.

Peter

[K***@adobeforums.com]

Hello!

I know I'm just kind of jumping in here, but I think the Data Merge would be the fastest and would work the most like Ola's original idea of having a form to type into on the first page. Instead of the form residing on a page in ID, it is just an Excel window off to the side.
If I'm understanding it correctly, this is going to be kind of like an on-the-fly Mad Libs. A customer walks up, you ask their info, type it into Excel (or whatever tab-delimited doc type you want to use). The ID file is already linked to the data file, so you save, hop over to ID, update the data source, click Preview and there you go!
If 4 people from 4 different companies show up at your booth at once...(not sure if I'm understanding the 'on location' part exactly)...take all their info at the same time, putting each person on a separate row in the data file, update the data source in ID, then use the Next and Previous buttons in the Data Merge window to show each of them their individual book. It would also show them right there how quick it is because you could flip through multiple records in seconds. You can also print single records from the original ID file without having to actually perform the merge. So you could print the entire 20 page book for one person's personalized info, switch to the next record, and print the next person's...if that's what you needed to do.

I think this would be a quick and super-slick way to do it. I think the speed of it would depend a lot on the computer you're using. I'm on a P4, 3.2 GHz, with 1GB RAM and a 23" monitor, and it's no problem for me having the multiple applications running simultaneously and having the Excel and ID windows up side by side.

[O***@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for the input!

You've got the general idea, and it really opens up the possibility of serving more than one customer at a time... ;-)

I was worrying about the time for Indesign to connect to data source, harvest data and displaying new data but I get the impression that it can be done fairly quick in a document as small as mine.

/O

[K***@adobeforums.com]

Simplest thing is to do a dummy run.

FWIW I am currently doing a DataMerge for a single page form with 1,092
records and 42 fields. It started half an hour ago and is about 15 per cent
of the way through. I'm running it on my laptop because otherwise it would
deprive me of my computer for the morning.

k

[B***@adobeforums.com]

If this is something you'll be doing regularly, you should look seriously at XMPie uDirect <http://www.xmpie.com/index.php?id=111>, a plug-in for InDesign that provides industrial-strength variable-data capabilities directly within ID. It's quite expensive ($2,500 per license), but it offers speed and functionality far beyond ID's built-in Data Merge utility. It comes with PDF output by default, and you select one other specialized VDP output format at the time of purchase. We went with the PPML output license, but you can also select VIPP, VPS, VDX, and PostScript output formats. You'll want to talk to your print service provider to see which format will work best with their workflows.

You can download a fully functional 30-day demo of the software to see if it would serve your needs.