Facing or non facing pages, gap or no gap between pages?

[R***@adobeforums.com]

Hi,
I wish to create a perfect bound book initially for digitial printing. I was told by a prospective printer that because of the quite large page size (300mm x 230mm- which seems not too large to me) that there should be two pages per spread (usual front and back), not four (is this usual?)due to the size of paper the machine can take. At the moment my document is set to 'facing pages' (which I find most convenient to get an idea of how things look visually from one page to another). However, if I change it to 'non facing' then the most important "inner and outer margins" become left and right margins and are therefore not always the size I want.IT IS MOST IMPORTANT TO ME THE INNER MARGIN IS ALWAYS THE LARGEST OF THE MEASUREMENTS I SPECIFIED, AND IS NEVER SWAPPED FOR THE SMALLER.Do I have to reset the document to nonfacing pages and keep manually altering the margins,which I REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO since I need to know how things look across the pages. Or... can I specify a gap between the pages of a 'facing page' document (and how do I do this?) to allow for cutting and 'perfect binding' (which was recommended), and would this be acceptable to a digitil printer with possible spread size restrictions... I am a bit confused by the whole thing...PLEASE HELP.

Also, i have currently set a 1mm bleed for the inner margin (3mm for all other sides)and for whole colour pages I ensure the colour fills that marked area.However, at the moment these areas for facing pages overlap on screen. Is this normal? (I can't find a way of putting a gap visually between the facing pages as displayed on screen).

Thanks!, Rachel

(Also, MANY thanks to a previous helpful reply from Peter)

[j***@adobeforums.com]

I'm not sure why you think you should change your document at all.

The printer mentions the number of pages per spread, because it'll cost twice as much with your larger pages :-) Due to the size of his machine, there is a practical limit to how many actual pages he can fit per sheet of paper -- that's what he calls "the spread" (and of course, this is two-sided). The smaller the pages are, the more he can print in a single go.

The process of fitting as much as possible pages in their correct order (think of folding the sheet) is called "imposition". Does this printer ask of you to make an imposition of your pages? Usually, they have the right software to do this, and all he should need is your definitive PDF, with *single pages* (you should ask him about actual page size, bleed, crop marks, and whatnot).

There is no need to adjust *your* spreads on-screen. It doesn't have an effect on the PDF you create. Well, unless you select 'export as spreads' option -- but theoretically you shouldn't.

[P***@adobeforums.com]

If you need an inside bleed for your perfect binding you'll find it easier to work with "broken" spreads, at least part of the time.

See this article for how to do it:
<http://indesignsecrets.com/breaking-pages-apart-to-bleed-off-a-spine.php>

Peter

[R***@adobeforums.com]

Hi,
Apparently it is possible to specify a GAP between facing pages just before a document goes out to printing (at least it seems so from my tutor book)and this would save the hassle of seperating each page (over 300)manually in the pages pallette? Is this so? Part of the question I suppose I mean to say is; Why can a Printer simply not print my pages onto a larger spread size (i.e. 230mm x 300mm pages printed onto at least 460mm x 600mm spreads)and surely then there will be four pages per spread and all he has to do is cut down the middle (because the specified 'gap'allows it before arranging it into a perfect bound document? My Printer did not mention imposition and I really hope that my computer or his does this automatically since otherwise I'll be paying a lot of money for a book where the pages are all printed in the wrong order! I worry about this...

P.S. Also, how do i create crop marks to specify where the Printer should cut?
Thanks, Rachel

[P***@adobeforums.com]

Rachel,

I think the "gap" you refer to must be "creep" which is an adjustment used to compensate for paper thickness when folding up a signature (if you fold a stack of paper together, the inside sheets protrude). This is added as part of the imposition process.

Indeed, your printer should be handling the imposition, and if you set up your document at trim size crop marks can be added automatically at print or export.

As far as I know there is no automatic way of forcing a gap automatically during the layout process, although it might be scriptable. But in reality, the only time you need to create this gap yourself in the layout is if you have a page item that bleeds on the spine edge of the page. For only a few pages this is not a great hardship.

If all of the pages are going to have an inside bleed, I think I'd make the page width wider to accommodate the bleed, adjust the margins, make the top and bottom bleeds larger and add a manual crop mark outside the normal bleed area but inside the expanded top and bottom bleeds. Be sure you discuss this with the printer before hand so he know what you've done and can adjust the imposition.

There is some confusion here, I think in terminology, and it could be a regional thing. In my experience a "spread" is considered to be a group of (generally two, but occasionally more) pages set next to each other at the spine. A "reader's" spread is in consecutive order and is how the document is viewed in finished for by the reader, and how it is usually set up by you for convenience in seeing how things fit together.

A "printer's" spread is how the pages are arranged during imposition so that after binding the right pages fall next to each other in reader's spread order. The exact order and placement of pages in printer's spreads depends on how many pages will be printed on a single press sheet, and how the sheets will be folded together and arranged in the final publication.

A "signature," sometimes called a "form" where I am, is one press sheet with pages printed on both sides which will be folded together and then trimmed during the binding process. A signature would usually have at least four pages (one two-page spread on either side) but typically have 8, 16, 32 or sometimes many more pages depending on the relative sizes of the page and press sheet. I think a "form" more properly refers to a group of signatures inserted into one another to make a booklet or section of a larger book, but it isn't a term that comes up often in the places I frequent.

So, your printer should be able to impose a group of 4-page signatures from your document to be printed on his digital equipment which he will then be able to assemble, trim and perfect bind. He should be adding any gap necessary during imposition, and you only need to break apart a spread where you have inside bleed items. If he's asking you to do the imposition for him, you're in the wrong place.

Hope that helps.